Jusuf Kalla talks Jokowi, the haze, and Indonesian workers

New Straits Times 30 Oct 15;

JAKARTA: It has been a year since Jakarta governor Joko Widodo, who won the hearts of Indonesians with his common man image, won Indonesia’s presidential election, garnering 53 percent of the votes.

His leadership was regarded by many as a ‘revolutionary’ step forward for Indonesia, and the “People’s President” made headlines around the world.

Joko announced Jusuf Kalla as his vice presidential running mate at Gedung Juang, Jakarta, on May 19, 2014.

Jusuf assumed the office of Indonesian Vice-President on Oct 20, 2014.

The following is the full text of Bernama’s interview with Jusuf in conjunction with the one-year anniversary of the President in office:-

Q: In conjunction with your one-year in office with the new president, can you state what is the present government’s mission and vision and how much has been achieved?

JK: Yes, every government will have its mission and vision, we want to have more prosperity and betterment for the people in various economic matters, there should be growth, political and social stability, and justice. We have carried out various growth programmes and there is a target. This year, the target is 5.7 per cent, in the next two years, we can achieve seven per cent, but due to the economic and world crisis, including in Indonesia and Malaysia, there is a problem and we are facing a crisis. Politically, Indonesia is very stable, we want social stability, and peace, compared to other nations, the politics in Indonesia and Malaysia is very good.

Q: What is the strategy of the Indonesian government to tackle the current economic slowdown?

JK: The current economic slowdown is caused by external factors such as Indonesian commodities especially in mining, coal, nickel, rubber and oil palm industries, prices have all fallen, so the incomes of the people in certain areas have dropped, and the purchasing power of the people have also dropped. We in Asia are facing this because of the global factors, and we are constantly having new programmes to strengthen our economy other than politics and the law. The strategy is to strengthen the domestic market, Indonesia is fortunate to have a big population and we can strengthen by reducing imports, enhancing the infrastructure and government spending until purchasing power recovers, then beefing up the agriculture sector until our imports are reduced for two to three years more until we can provide more jobs (to the people).

Q: As a Vice-President and politician who has experience working with two different presidents, can you share your experience and what is the difference?

JK: Five years of working with SBY (Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono) and then now with Joko Widodo, I am just professional, not with any party and can work with anyone. What is most important is that I support the progress of the regime well and the people also support. Every leader has a different style, but the principles and objectives remain the same.

Q: Malaysia is the closest neighbour and only separated by land and sea borders. But there are always issues relating to the border, what is your view to overcome this issue so that it does not drag on?

JK: This problem between Indonesia-Malaysia is in the different ways we determine the border. Although there are international standards for it, sometimes there are problems, and differences in history and people. But with Malaysia, all can be resolved through discussions although these may take a long time, (our experience) there have been problems (like) Sipadan and Ligitan which have been taken to the International Court, which decided that both are part of Malaysia, and Indonesia respected that.

Q: Does Indonesia want the current border problem to be taken to the International Court?

JK: The Sipadan and Ligitan issue was taken to the International Court and (now) there is the border problem with Malaysia in the Straits of Melaka and in Kalimantan like Sarawak, and others, we resolve through talks, and if not, we settle it in court, and we respect each other. There are problems, but all can be solved. If we cannot talk, we will go on our discussions for years, if not, we will take it to court, as in the case of Sipadan and Ligitan, and Indonesia respects every decision.

Actually, culturally, we are one, many Malaysians are from Indonesia because previously, there was no Indonesia and Malaysia, so people were free to travel anywhere.

Some are from Bugis (group) such as Pak Najib (Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Razak), some from Java, some Malays are from Sumatra because historically there were no countries. Indonesia and Malaysia have similarities in culture and are in constant contact and visit each other. Now there are already nations, so there are borders (but) these are just techniques of governance only) but the culture and language are still the same.

Except in the 60s, there was conflict (the Indonesia-Malaysia confrontation) which was resolved well and (after the issue was settled) we could work together in the political, economic, and business arenas through mutual appreciation, helping each other in investments, and mutual respect.

Q: At present, the issue of the smoke or haze resulting from burnings in forest areas and plantations in Indonesia is a problem in Malaysia. How can this problem be overcome so that it does not happen again?

JK: The question of the smoke from Indonesia is very complicated. This is because many of the affected residents are in Sumatra and Kalimantan in Indonesia. The problem is that we cannot control the wind, it is nature which controls the wind.

The wind took the smoke to Singapore and Malaysia. If we are neighbours, we enjoy the winds together, we enjoy the good, and we are both affected when it is bad. If the air is good, the clean energy, clean weather, Malaysia will enjoy it from the jungles of Indonesia, what can we do if there is smog. So we should work together during good times, and overcome the bad.

Indonesia is thankful to Pak Najib (Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Razak) and the parties involved, formally, there is an agreement at the ASEAN level, on fires, and if needed to be jointly tackled, Indonesia is grateful for the joint effort.

Indonesia has done the best and is working with 20 aircraft and five armed forces battalions, and the people are also helping.

Q: But the problem of forest fires is caused by human actions?

JK: There is the human element but it is aided by dryness (drought season). There could be accidental acts, some are because of industries. Talking of industries, there are 30 per cent of estates owned by Malaysian companies. So all are responsible.

Indonesia has a long-term plan to resolve this problem and to stop the expansion of estates especially in peat soil areas.

Q: Why has the Indonesian government not taken stern action to ensure that nobody dares to burn the forests?

JK: Many people have been prosecuted, every year many people are imprisoned, many also have to pay fines, this is done by the people because they do not have heavy equipment, no bulldozers, no excavators, to work their land, so they burn, but that has been prohibited by the (government) policies.

They are also caused by nature, there is fire, there is wind which changes, so there are more accidental cases, because of nature.

Q: Sir, another issue between Malaysia and Indonesia is concerning the salary for housemaids which is quite high. It is reasonable to ask for higher salaries?

JK: Yes, previously many Indonesians went to Saudi Arabia and Malaysia to be housemaids because the salary was five times more than in Indonesia. Now, to be a maid in Indonesia, the salary has been increased to Rp2 million (about RM600), which is why it is reasonable that a housemaid in Malaysia get a salary of Rp3 million (almost RM1,000).

Q: Sir, there is still a problem with illegal workers who enter the country illegally through sea routes and they are willing to risk death just to get jobs in Malaysia. What is your view on this?

JK: Illegal workers mean they do not have the documents to enter Malaysia, and this happens because of both the employers and workers, and both are guilty. On that score, they are guilty. The Indonesian worker is guilty, the Malaysian employer is guilty, but often the Indonesian workers are punished but not the employers when under Malaysian law, clearly the employer must also be punished. If it is illegal, both parties must be punished.

Q: What is the best way to stop Indonesian workers from entering Malaysia illegally?

JK: Indonesia now is controlling it (permit to work in Malaysia), it is no longer easy. There must be regulations and Indonesians must have skills and be assured a minimum salary and insurance coverage. The problem is that Malaysians like to accept illegal immigrants to work in estates or homes. If there is no offer for employment, they will not go.

Q: What is your advice to them who want to seek employment in Malaysia?

JK: My advice is that (Indonesians) must have all the documents and skills and in Malaysia, there must be good agents and industries, clear jobs.
We also hope that Malaysia does not accept workers who do not have all the documents.

Q: Sir, we move on to international questions on Islamophobia. Western countries have labeled Islam as violent and terrorist. As the Vice-President of the country with the largest Muslim population in the world, what is your view on this issue?

JK: Yes, there are some Muslim groups which are radical and it happens anywhere, people are afraid, not just people in Europe, but even Muslims are afraid. They bomb Pakistan, Yemen, Syria, and other places.

We must work together to stop radicalism in Islam, so it is not all of Islam which is feared, only the radical groups. Actually, these radical groups exist because of the west. Al-Qaeda rose in Afghanistan which is a failed nation, was attacked by Russia and America and went to war (till today), was destroyed, so the Al-Qaeda rose to provide new protection, and became radical.

Terrorist groups such as the ISIS rose from Iraq and Syria because they (United States of America) destroyed Iraq only because America wanted to destroy Saddam Hussein (all because) of the western countries.

They helped the rebels in Syria and from that destruction, new ideologies came about which became radical. The west destroyed these countries and they created their own enemies.

(This does not happen) in Indonesia and Malaysia because we are peaceful nations, there is no radicalism because we are not failed nations. (We) have moderate views as introduced in Malaysia which is moderate Islam and in Indonesia Islam Nusantara.

Q: But there are Malaysians and Indonesians who are influenced by the radical groups?

JK: There are more westerners who have been recruited by the ISIS compared to those from Indonesia and Malaysia. We found that there were 250 Indonesians who were involved, but in the west, the number is 5,000. The Indonesians were influenced by the ideology through the internet. But we are more peaceful compared to the Middle East, Pakistan and Afghanistan. We are thankful because although there were attempts to bring in the ideology, we are not a failed nation.

Q: What is your opinion on the role played by the OIC (Organisation of Islamic Cooperation)?

JK: The OIC is only a group of 54 nations and does not have the might, cannot make decisions, cannot take action, more to conferences and can only hope.

There are more Muslim nations in the Middle East, although Indonesia has the largest Muslim population, but in six Muslim nations in the Middle East, it is difficult to unite them because of differences in ideology, especially between the Sunni-Syiah which has been happening for thousands of years.

Q: Indonesia does not ban Syiah teaching?

JK: In Indonesia there is Syiah teaching but not many. We do not ban any thoughts. Indonesia practices freedom, but we only hope that the people avoid and it and stop it from spreading. If they want to promote Syiah thought, carry on...but for internally (within the country) only, we do not what the thought to spread.

Q: Sir, in conclusion, please send a message to the millions of Indonesians living in Malaysia.

JK: Yes, I want to send my congratulations to all communities and our people in Malaysia. Remember we are one family from Indonesia, let us build good relations (with Malaysians). We build good progress, in economics, culture, politics because we have a long history and thankfully, we can foster it in the best way, so let us work together for the good of our people. -- Bernama